51 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2002, Canada

Journals of the Senate

2nd Session, 37th Parliament

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Issue 24

Tuesday, December 3, 2002
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Bacon, Baker, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kroft, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Pitfield, Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, *Austin, Bacon, Baker, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, *Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, *Kirby, Kroft, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Pitfield, Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., tabled the following:

The December 2002 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons, pursuant to sbs. 7(3) of the Auditor General Act.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-216.

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Bacon, Chair of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, presented its Fourth Report (CRTC decision re CPAC's licence renewal application).

(The Report is printed as Appendix "A'')

The Honourable Senator Bacon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maheu, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Milne, Chair of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament, presented its Fifth Report (amendment to Rule 95(3) — committee meetings during adjournments of the Senate).

(The Report is printed as Appendix "B'')

The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poy, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Presentation of Petitions

The Honourable Senator Milne presented petitions:

Of Residents of Canada concerning the Statistics Act (census records).

MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

A Message was brought from the House of Commons to return Bill S-2, An Act to implement an agreement, conventions and protocols concluded between Canada and Kuwait, Mongolia, the United Arab Emirates, Moldova, Norway, Belgium and Italy for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion and to amend the enacted text of three tax treaties,

And to acquaint the Senate that the Commons have passed this Bill, without amendment.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mahovlich, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poy, for the third reading of Bill C-12, An Act to promote physical activity and sport,

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended,

(a) in clause 32, on page 13, by adding after line 27 the following:

"(4) The Minister shall cause a copy of the corporate plan to be tabled in each House of Parliament on any of the first fifteen days on which that House is sitting after the Minister receives the plan.''; and

(b) in clause 33, on page 14, by adding after line 11 the following:

"(5) The Minister shall cause a copy of the annual report to be tabled in each House of Parliament on any of the first fifteen days on which that House is sitting after the Minister receives the report.''.

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended,

(a) on page 13, by adding after line 10, the following:

"32. The Centre is deemed to be a government institution as that term is defined in section 3 of the Access to Information Act and section 3 of the Privacy Act for the purposes of those Acts.'';

(b) on page 15,

(i) by adding before the heading "Department of Canadian Heritage'' before line 17, the following:

"Access to Information Act

37. Schedule I to the Access to Information Act is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order under the heading "Other Government Institutions'':

Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada
Centre de règlement des différends sportifs du Canada'',

(ii) by adding after line 21, the following:

"Privacy Act

39. Schedule I to the Privacy Act is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order under the heading "Other Government Institutions'':

Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada
Centre de règlement des différends sportifs du Canada'' ; and

(c) by renumbering clauses 32 to 40 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Roche, seconded by the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in clause 35,

(a) on page 14, by deleting the heading before line 23 and lines 23 to 46;

(b) on page 15, by deleting lines 1 to 7; and

(c) by renumbering clauses 36 to 40 as clauses 35 to 39 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Gauthier, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaPierre, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in the Preamble, on page 1, by replacing lines 5 to 8 with the following:

"social cohesion, linguistic duality, economic activity, cultural diversity and quality of life;''.

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Bolduc, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended, in clause 28, on page 10, by replacing lines 34 to 38 with the following:

"Auditor General of Canada

28. (1) The accounts and financial transactions of the Centre are subject to examination and audit by the Auditor General of Canada.

(2) The Auditor General of Canada shall annually

(a) audit and provide an opinion on the financial statements of the Centre; and

(b) provide a report to the Chairperson and to the Minister on the audit and opinion.

(3) The Minister shall cause a copy of the Auditor General's report to be tabled in each House of Parliament on any of the first fifteen days on which that House is sitting after the Minister receives the report.''.

After debate,

With leave of the Senate,

In amendment, the Honourable Senator Gauthier moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in clause 7, on page 4, by adding after line 19 the following:

"(3) In developing contribution and policy implementation agreements, the Minister shall take into account the needs of the English-speaking and French-speaking minorities, in accordance with the Official Languages Act.''.

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that further debate on the motions in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Third reading of Bill C-10A, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms) and the Firearms Act.

A Point of Order was raised with respect to the proceedings on Bill C-10A.

After debate,

The Speaker reserved his decision.

Motions

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks:

That the Senate call on the government to ratify the Kyoto Protocol on Climate Change.

After debate,

In amendment, the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., that the motion be amended by substituting for the period after the word "Change'' the following:

", but only if, after the Senate has heard in Committee of the Whole from all federal, provincial and territorial government representatives who wish to appear, the Senate determines that there is a substantial measure of federal-provincial agreement on an implementation plan.''

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

SPEAKER'S RULING

I will begin by reading the relevant authority, which is found in Erskine May's Parliamentary Practice, page 532, under the heading "Division of bills.''

When an instruction has been given to the committee that a bill may be divided into two or more bills, those clauses which are to form a separate bill have been postponed or considered in the position assigned to them by the bill. When they have been considered, preambles (if necessary), enacting words and titles have been annexed to them, and the separate bills have then been separately reported.

That, I believe, is the operative authority. Hence, I rule that it is not necessary to proceed in two steps. In fact, on November 28, as recorded on page 228 of the Journals of the Senate, the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs reported back to the Senate its second report as follows:

Your committee, to which was referred Bill C-10, an Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals and firearms) and the Firearms Act, and to which instructions were given to divide Bill C-10 into two bills, has, in obedience to both orders of reference, examined the said bills and now reports that it has divided the bill into two bills, Bill C-10A, an Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms) and the Firearms Act, and Bill C-10B, an Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals), both of which are set out in Appendices A and B respectively to this report.

Your committee has agreed to report Bill C-10A without amendment, and further reports that it is continuing its examination of Bill C-10B.

Respectively submitted,

Further, in the Journals of the Senate, at the bottom of page 228 and at the top of page 229, it is noted:

After debate,
The question being put on the motion for the adoption of the report, it was adopted on division.

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that Bill C-10A, an Act to amendment the Criminal Code (firearms) and the Firearms Act, be placed on the Orders of the Day for third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Honourable senators, that is how this matter came before us earlier today. The committee reported a bill back to the house, not a draft of a bill or a document. The Senate took it as such — a bill. It was the subject of a motion that gave rise to the order to vote today, as recorded on page 230 of the Journals of the Senate.

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:

That, pursuant to Rule 38, in relation to Bill C-10A, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms) and the Firearms Act, no later than 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday, December 3, 2002, any proceedings before the Senate shall be interrupted and all questions necessary to dispose of third reading of the Bill shall be put forthwith without further debate or amendment, and that any votes on any of those questions not be further deferred; and

That, if a standing vote is requested, the bells to call in the Senators be sounded for thirty minutes, so that the vote takes place at 6:00 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

In conclusion, the way in which the committee dealt with the order of the Senate is in order. Bill C-10 has not disappeared and the committee to which it was referred has properly carried out the order of the Senate. Accordingly, it is in order to proceed.

Bills

Third reading of Bill C-10A, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms) and the Firearms Act.

The Honourable Senator Jaffer moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey, that the Bill be read the third time.

After debate,

In amendment, the Honourable Senator Watt moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that subsection 98(3) of the Criminal Code Part III be amended to provide for reasonable time available to those law abiding Inuit and other law abiding Canadians to conform with the requirement to obtain a registration certificate for purposes of possession of firearms other than prohibited or restricted firearms and as follows:

"Any person who, at any particular time between the coming into force of subsections 91(1), 92(1) and 94(1) and the later of January 1, 1998, and such other date as is prescribed, possesses a firearm, that, as of that particular time, is not a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm shall be deemed for the purposes of that subsection to be, until January 1, 2004, the holder of a registration certificate for that firearm''.

After debate,

A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the motion in amendment.

After debate,

The Speaker ruled that the motion in amendment was irreceivable.

At 5:30 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted November 28, 2002, the question being put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Jaffer, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey, for the third reading of Bill C-10A, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Bacon, Biron, Callbeck, Carstairs, Christensen, Cook, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fraser, Furey, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Kenny, Kroft, Lapointe, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Milne, Morin, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poy, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Smith, Stollery, Wiebe—38

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Bolduc, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Di Nino, Forrestall, Gustafson, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Rivest, Rossiter, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Spivak, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt—28

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Beaudoin, Gauthier, Gill, Joyal—4

Accordingly, the Bill was read the third time and passed.

The Speaker then read the Message to the House of Commons, as follows:

Ordered, That the Clerk do carry this Bill back to the House of Commons and acquaint that House that the Senate has divided the Bill into two Bills, Bill C-10A, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms) and the Firearms Act, and Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals), both of which are attached to this Message as Appendices "A'' and "B'' respectively; and

That the Clerk further acquaint that House that: (a) the Senate desires the concurrence of the House of Commons in the division of Bill C-10; (b) the Senate has passed Bill C-10A without amendment; and (c) the Senate is further considering Bill C-10B.

A Point of Order was raised with respect to the Message to the House of Commons.

After debate,

The Speaker reserved his decision.

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Ordered, That all Committees have power to sit while the Senate is sitting today, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

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Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

(Accordingly, at 6:24 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)

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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry

The name of the Honourable Senator Chalifoux substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Fraser (November 29).

Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce

The name of the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Hubley (November 29).

Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources

The name of the Honourable Senator Cordy removed from the membership (November 29).

Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs

The names of the Honourable Senators Jaffer and Furey substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Corbin and Rompkey (November 29).

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